Prior Notification Forms

[LukeG]

Hi all,

First post.

I have just recently bought just under 4 acres in South Wales. I live about 2 hours away so work will be done over weekends and a couple of full weeks here and there. In order to do this I'll need to put up a Forestry Shed/Tool Store and I also intend to put a compost toilet in part of the shed. I've read through all the planning stuff and am about to fill in the prior notification forms, but I thought it best to ask some knowledgeable folk on here beforehand to save a daft slip ups.

On the form the building size etc is simply enough, probably 5x2.5m. They are asking for a plan of where the shed would go, which seems strange as I'll literally be giving an x marks the spot which will mean nothing out of context without seeing the site...but anyway. One question I'm stuck with is "How long has the site been used for Agricultural or Forestry Business or Trade?". How do I answer that? We're talking about Hobby Forestry so it's not relevant and I have no idea of the past uses that much, other than it was formerly used for timber but has hardly been touched since established in the 50's.

Furthermore I'm just going to put forestry shed, and leave out the part about a compost toilet. I don't want them to assume I'm building some shack for myself and what goes on in the shed shouldn't matter too much as long as it's not for sleeping, right?

Advice very much appreciated.

P.S Site is not AONB, Very much off the beaten track with no public right of way. It's in a larger wood with 5 other sections owned by individuals.

[oldclaypaws]

Prior notification is a process designed for agricultural and forestry businesses to fast track facilities they need to carry out their professions and manage the land commercially.

Because your need is for hobby purposes, it doesn't fall under prior notification and would need full planning permission. Not my rules, that's the way the legislation is designed. As detailed on here;

"Examples of when planning permission will be required include:

development on land which is not currently used in connection with an agricultural business, for
example, hobby farming "

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/1app/guidance/guidance_note-prior_notification_proposed_agricultural_or_forestry_development.pdf

[LukeG]

Ahh, awesome. Is this any less straightforward?

[Wendelspanswick]

Don't mention the hobby bit on your application.
On my application I stated that the land had been used for forestry or agriculture for in excess of 50 years which is true, it does not ask how long YOU have used the land for.
I submitted a location plan with my application which gave a rough outline of the building in relation to the parcel of land.
If you want I can PM you a link to my application to give you some help?

[LukeG]

That would be great thanks.

I'm assuming Permitted Development rights mean that they can't say no as long as its reasonably neccessary? Living so far away means that without this I can't manage the land so hopefully they see that.

[oldclaypaws]

It seems to be a bit of a lottery whether you get consent, and dependant on the area and the planning officers, it can be subjective.

My planning officer didn't seem interested that I had several hundred tons of oak to season and that the whole project was a full time occupation. I pointed out the value of the timber and he said 'security is no justification for planning consent'. It was only when I pointed out it was a restoration project that would benefit the wildlife and flora and had the backing of the FC, Council and local wildlife trust that he mellowed. I justified a large building as I had some large kit to store that couldn't be carried by car on a daily basis. When I rambled on about sawmills, seasoning and log arches he became convinced I was genuine.

Most of them have heard it all before and will get you to try and justify it. Eg, why can't you just bring what you need in a car each time? What items are there that are bulky, which you must have stored there in order to manage the wood? These are the things you'll need to justify.....or you may get lucky and find there's no big deal.

[LukeG]

Oldclaypaws, is this true for forestry too? From what I can see in the guidelines there is far less defined regarding forestry. I'm struggling to see why they could refuse me unless I'm proposing a log cabin or something. As long as what I want is within PD they cannot legally refuse me, can they?

Obviously I'm only looking for a small structure, no saw mills or heavy machinery garages.

[Wendelspanswick]

There is some useful information here:
http://smallwoods.org.uk/wp-content/upl ... anning.pdf

[LukeG]

I've been looking at the Permitted Development Rights in detail and it says:

"Permitted development rights for forestry
E11 Part 7 of Schedule 2 to the General Permitted Development Order grants certain permitted
development rights for erecting, extending or altering a forestry building, for forming, altering or
maintaining private ways, and for other operations (excluding engineering and mining). Development
is not permitted for dwellings, or exceeding 3 metres in height within 3 kilometres of an aerodrome,
or within 25 metres of a trunk or classified road."

"E13 The permitted development rights for development on smaller agricultural units (between 0.4
hectares and 5 hectares) are not subject to the determination procedure, except on Article 1(6) land,
where the procedure applies to extensions and alterations of buildings and the provision,
rearrangement or replacement of roads."

2E14 The determination procedure provides local planning authorities with a means of regulating,
where necessary, important aspects of agricultural and forestry development for which full planning
permission is not required by virtue of the General Permitted Development Order. They should also
use it to verify that the intended development does benefit from permitted development rights, and
does not require a planning application (see paragraphs 3.5 and 3.6 above). There is no scope to
extend the 28 day determination procedure, nor should the discretionary second stage concerning the
approval of certain details be triggered for irrelevant reasons. A local planning authority will therefore
need to take a view during the initial stage as to whether Part 6 rights apply."

"E15 Provided all the General Permitted Development Order requirements are met, the principle of
whether the development should be permitted is not for consideration, and only in cases where the
local planning authority considers that a specific proposal is likely to have a significant impact on its
surroundings would the Secretary of State consider it necessary for the authority to require the formal
submission of details for approval. By no means all the development proposals notified under the
Order will have such an impact."

How can they refuse on this basis?

[oldclaypaws]

We're going round in circles a bit here. As, previously stated, permitted development by prior notification is essentially a fast track process designed for FARMERS and Commercial foresters to carry out their trade, there's no automatic entitlement for hobby or amenity wood owners to have a shed, although some do succeed.

Exemptions to prior notification where full planning permission is required includes "land which is not currently used in connection with an agricultural business, for example, hobby farming"

An officious planning officer could argue that permitted development is not relevant to a small non commercial area as you're not employed in the rural economy, which is what the legislation was designed for.

In theory you need to prove the shed is necessary, although as yours is small,and not in an AONB, they're more likely to look on it favourably. Don't mention any kind of craft operation such as needing somewhere to make baskets and walking sticks, that would be regarded as manufacturing.