Bager cull

[Henrietta]

What a poor excuse to maintain hedges and copses Mr. Williams. Surely these fine upstanding farmers and landowners would be doing this for the wildlife anyway. I THOUGHT NOT. If you like foxes as you say you do, then why do you support hunting. It is purely a blood lust activity, (I was going to say sport, but there is nothing sporting about it) indulged in by people with questionable intelligence. It is on a par with badger baiting, dog fighting, cock fighting, bull fighting, and any other cruel and mindless activity that goes on. Trouble is for you hunters is that the public see you as dinosaurs and whether you like it or not, fox hunting days are numbered.

[jillybean]

Henrietta is Right you know. Driving whilst drunk, Stealing cars and beating people up are considered "Sport" in certain circles, and those people justify their actions by saying how alive they feel and what a rush of Adrenaline they get. What's your excuse?

[Keith Williams]

My post was not intended to offend or insult, only to challenge the assertion "There is not one single argument that holds up". I credit everyone with the intelligence to make up their own minds, I simply believe the stewardship of the countryside and fox population will be better with hunting than without. I fully understand the abhorrence many have of hounds killing the fox.

Personally I hunt with a camera, usng a rifle only when necessary for human convenience. See http://s538.photobucket.com/albums/ff347/greyfox_kjw/NPJuneDiscovery/?action=view&current=0580FoxStalk1.jpg&evt=user_media_share , first of seven photos of a fox stalking rabbits, click on thubnails to left to see the other six.

Question to Exeldma, did you handle the injured Badger? I've been getting close to badgers trying to get decent photos and have been warned they can be aggresive and dangerous. Well done for helping him, but how did it go?

[jillybean]

I apologise if I was abrupt with you Keith. The Foxes in my wood do no harm, In fact they help me keep the rabbits down. I cant see why any woodland owner or anyone who does not keep chickens should hate them to the point of earthing up their dens and setting 30 dogs on them. no wonder they have all moved to the cities. there is no fox problem in my part of the world (Kent), The traffic keeps the population down.

[James M]

Keith - nature is ruthless and cruel, humans can also be ruthless and cruel, but also seem to be the only things that actually have feelings and compassion in nature.

I came across this - http://www.theloneforester.com/forum/showthread.php?18-Nature-s-Cruel&p=33#post33 ( I know, my site but I've nowhere else to post photos).

I was on rabbit patrol when I saw it and for a whole awful minute as I approached it I thought I would have to carry out a humane dispatch with all I had on me, which was my trusty 12B Baikal! Thankfully, in an odd way, it was already dead.

[James M]

Keith - having read and re-read some of the comments on this thread, with some shock I must admit a) that they were made, and b) that they have not been deleted, can I just say - a bit of emotional support from me to you mate.

[tracy]

Was I meant to delete something? I think this thread is ok - yes, got a bit emotional with one or 2 things rather strongly said..... but one person apologised for being abrupt and the other stood up for himself rather nicely!

A good time to remind people of careful wording when writing though - easy to misunderstood eachother and our emotions on tough topics like these.

BTW, it was the traps we got rid of, I have no issue with magpies in our woodland

[Keith Williams]

James & Jilly, your posts appreciated, thanks. I agree with Tracey this is an open forum and things need to get very extreme before deletion should be considered. Foxhunting is an emotive issue.

I'm off to the woods helping on a bushcraft course this weekend - these woods are also used as a pheasant shoot and I'm not keen on the latest plantings (xmas type trees), the worlds not ideal but we wouldn't even get access if the landowner didn't want the fees we pay.

[Henrietta]

My apologies to you Keith. I admit I did go over the top, and read more into your posting than was actually there. This is absolutely no excuse at all, but I had just come hotfoot from a rather heated debate on the Guardian website on the topic of GM foods. Anyway once again, sorry.

On another note, there is a petition on the website of "The Welsh Assembly", opposing the badger cull. If anyone is interested it is open untill 26th April.

[Exeldama]

First to Keith. Yes i handled it. They are tough cookies and not to be treated lightly. i wouls eriously discourage anyone from having a go unless they are confident and know how to do it. Big bite and claws. I have been lucky enough to have handled most of our wildlife up close, badgers foxes deer otters raptors seals a killer whale etc........ every situation is diffrent but never forget they are scared of us and with good cause.

as to farmers well...my dad is one and he never felt the need to chase foxes around for fun. Its ironic that so much is done against foxes and for pheasant when the latter dont belong and decimate our invertebrate population when they are released. Foxes on the other hand are part of our native wildlife and a great asset, smart and beautiful. I witnessed two kills as a child and saw full well that they dont get killed by a neat nip to the neck (disembowling..yuck). Everyone is entiltled to a view as you say but very few people including the hunters (Dont the dogs do the hunting) have ever actually got close to a fox and realise its as smart as your own dog probably smarter and should at the least be afforded the cortesy of some humanity..ie shoot it humanely if a prob. Basically im right and everyone who hunts on a horse with 40 hounds is about as close to a hunter as Anne widdecombe.and should do drag racing instead