Squirrel control - take care

[Exeldama]

Sorry James but in my opinion your very wrong. Firstly i have several friends who work as proffesionals in pest control and whilst i dont know what pistol they use..a pistol is what they employ. As said no-one without exception should be killing anything unless they can do it without causing suffering.

as to your coment about squirrels or similar not experiencing pain in the same way, im afraid your about 30 years out of date.

The UFAW did a huge amount of study into this issue and of course we have the Bateson report as well... there is absolutley no doubt that higher mammals experience pain the same as we do, what is diffrent is the manner in which they express that pain.

In the wild state animals tend to hide pain for very obvious reasons.. they still exibit the exact same neurological response. As to the FEAR factor... i suspect i have more experience than anyone on here with handling wildlife that is injured and in pain.... and i can assure you wildlife squirrels included do feel pain and do suffer extremes of stress....

Again i say if you can kill cleanly then i have no problem, but to cause suffering is ignorant and has nothing to do with anthropomorphism. we are only animals so are squirrels lets not get too excited and think we are set up in some higher manner that precludes other animals to suffer.... your analogy of an earthworm is irrelevant...they have a completley diffrent neurological set up.....

[Exeldama]

Oh and just as an aside...bare in mind that within the legal system the courts have to be satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that the issue of suffering is proven...this is not a subjective test... it has been challenged by defences and gone to Judicial review. the result is a clear one and supported by scientific authority higher than either of us.

Self awareness and pain are very different... drowning causes pain, ... its the same old argument for those people who used to stick reptiles in freezers to kill them if they were sick and they didnt want to pay for a vet...

Reptiles dont yell out and in fact hide there suffering very well... but freezing before unconciouness causes the cell walls to fracture as ice crystals form... again the reptiles bodiies produced exactly the same hormonal response as one would expect in a pain/stress respone....

Animals dont produce these chemicals for a laugh... there is a purpose to it.. and that is exactly what pain and stress are they are very real.

[James M]

I wonder how the squirrels told you? The same way the earthworm tells me.

[James M]

WB - wait till the rest arrive!

[tracy]

Hi all!

As this is an emotive issue, may I remind us all that the written word is easily misunderstood and without the to and fro of conversation can get muddled.

play nicely ;-)

[greyman]

As Tracy says - lets play nicely - maybe the hot weather is causing a little frustration....

We don't really want to come down to the level of some other forums on the web do we? I'm sure I'm not alone in getting irate at some things that others say on here but if it is soooooo contentious I bite my tongue and go and rant off-line - we're never all going to agree so maybe agreeing to disagree is the best option.

Love and Bananas,

Greyman

[Darren]

It's a subjective thing really. Does a fox care about the squealing of the rabbit when it's slowly killed?

I will always go for the clean kill, but how many times has that happened?

If you catch a squirrel in a live trap it's already suffering. I don't see the point of drowning if you have a large stick handy.

[Rich]

Yeah I suppose it is a very difficult morel dilema to resolve. I hate to see any animal suffer more than is necessary, however we have cats, mainly to keep the mice out of the house, but the cruelty they inflict on their prey before killing or sometime not is appauling.

I do trap squirrels and in an ironic way the cats inflict even more cruelty on them as I am unable to use the 'instant' kill fen type trap for fear that one of the cats would accidentally trigger it off. They have to wait a miserable few hours until I get round to my twice daily checks.

Wish there was a better way, but I can't think of one.

[MartinD]

Squirrels seem to be on the news a lot at the moment - this story was on the BBC breakfast news programme - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/7915674/Budgens-criticised-for-selling-grey-squirrels-for-food.html

[Exeldama]

Not that emotive for me..just plain logic.

Unlike the cat we have the ability to make decsions based on other than emotion... if you dont have to cause suffering and you do ...well that says a lot about you i guess.

James... you dont seem able to appreciate what i am saying.. so if i may just confirm for you.... i am about as un-anthropomorphic as they come. But neither am i one of those nutters who think we (humans) have some super right over all the worlds animals etc... very often this appears born of some subliminal religious bent which is a personal thing but not my cup oftea. You and i are mere upgraded monkeys... i dont presume to be anything else. That said i can peel my own bannanas..can you.. !!

Dont worry Tracey i am being nice and im sure Bannanas dont offend.