Wildlife & countryside act 1981

[Adrian]

I expect one of you lot will Know the definitive answer to this.

I know its illegal to SELL bluebells taken from the wild.

If I dig up some bluebells and SWAP them for hazel seedlings am I breaking the law?

[Stephen1]

Yes - this is still illegal. You are effectively bartering, and in law bartering equates to a sale.

You can as the landowner make a gift of the bluebell bulbs to anyone you like. You may then choose to buy the hazel seedlings from your friend at a later date - it might be that he chooses to sell them to you at one penny each and provides you with a receipt... this would be legal. The thing is you need to ensure that there is no legal connection between the exchange of bluebells and hazel - i.e. that the exceedingly low price you pay for the hazel is not conditional on the gift of bluebells. No paperwork needed for the exchange of the bluebells but do get a receipt for the purchase of your bargain hazel!

[tracy]

Interesting, I thought it was illegal to dig up blue bells... but I am not basing that on any evidence! Maybe that is just on someone elses land.

I wouldn't want to give away any of our blue bells anyway ;-)

[Sussexboy]

My understanding of the act is that while it is legal for the landowner to dig up bluebells (or any other wild flower) on their own land, they cannot offer them for sale. It is also illegal to dig up bluebells (or any other wild flower) on land that does not belong to you. Wild Boar beware, you may receive an ASBO or whatever the latest equivalent is.

[HCR]

Section 13 of the WCA 1981:

(1)Subject to the provisions of this Part, if any person—.

(a)intentionally picks, uproots or destroys any wild plant included in Schedule 8; or.

(b)not being an authorised person, intentionally uproots any wild plant not included in that Schedule,.

he shall be guilty of an offence.

Bluebells are on Schedule 8, so you can't dig them up to give them away anyway.

[Stephen1]

HCR I appreciate being told you are wrong may offend - that's not my intention, however you are quite wrong. Yes bluebells are on schedule 8 but bluebells are an exception in that the act only 'protects' them from sale / advertising for sale etc. The landowner is quite within his rights to dig them up and give them away.

See the act below;

http://www.naturenet.net/law/sched8.html

You will see that bluebells are an exception. (in that only parts 2a and 2b of section 13 apply to bluebells)

In the most recent case I can think of;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/6962312.stm

you will note that the prosecution relied on demonstrating that a 'sale', albeit 'barter' in this case, occured - the prosecution did Not depend on whether the landowner allowed the bluebells to be dug up or not.

As I say I don't wish to cause offence HCR but you are mistaken - and this is too important a matter to leave missinformation uncorrected up on the forum out of politeness.

It is important because bluebells have a very low ability to disperse and in many situations they are very hard to establish as population viable in the long term from seed. There are lots of young broadleaved plantations on ex-agricultural soils that over the next few years will benefit greatly from translocations of bluebell bulbs.

(Yes I know it's easy to get populations established from seed in moist areas on base rich soils - but those situations are far from universal!)

So just to clarify - Adrian is quite within his rights as landowner to dig up some of his bluebell bulbs if he wishes.

[Exeldama]

Interesting debate...... a couple of thoughts. Firstly the wildlife and countryside act is unusual in many ways in that there is a burden placed upon the defence to prove themselves innocent of the charge whereas in most legislation the burden of proof is placed upon the prosecution alone.

Secondly, it is quite correct to say that sale can be constituted to mean many things....it is not simply getting cash renumeration. You could in theory give a pile of bluebell bulbs away in exchange for a days work coppicing in your wood and this could constitute selling...there are other potential difficulties which i am too tired to explain..

Thirdly, never rely in Law upon singular cases... whilst precedence is a marker it is not a guarantee of the likely outcome.....

Lastly and strangely,.... i to thought that bluebells spread slowly by seed, and were less then hardy to being trampled...yet on garderners question time.. a response from the panel was that they are excellent colonisers..???????????? See everyone has an opinion and everone is right ..except when im involved and then its just me thats right....!!

[Stephen1]

However it is still true that the landowner can dig up bluebells on his/her own land and give them away if they wish.

I wasn't relying on a single case, merely offering a recent example. The law is still the law and the prosecution must still prove their case. There are many situations in law where the defence has to demonstrate their 'innocence', typically through a requirement to keep records etc. I appreciate the difficulties in terms of what constitutes selling hence my suggestions with regard to the original questions -obviously you know more about the law than I do (I seem to remember that's what you do isn't it?) perhaps you could suggest a better way for Adrian and others to defend themselves against any accusation that a 'sale' of some sort has occured?

The experience of Garderners is most often with the much more robust Spanish bluebell - which unfortunatley is a very good colonizer.

Where garderners have experience with our native bluebell it is usually in situations where there is considerably more light than there is within a woodland. Gardens are usually small and so even if the bluebells are below trees there is often a great deal of light reaching them from the side. It's easy to not notice just how much less light there is in woodland than in the open, because when we enter shady woodland our eyes compensate for the reduction in light by opening up the iris and letting more light in to the eye - the 'compensated' picture we 'see' doesn't change that much but the reality may be that the light reaching the woodland floor maybe only a few percent of that in the open or under a few trees in a garden. The two situations may seem similar to the human eye - but in reality are very different.

In the woodland the total amount of photosynthesis that can occur each year is much smaller and so growth is much less than under a few trees in a garden - as a result the plants are much more vulnerable to minor setbacks/damage etc.. In open situations in gardens the gardener weeds out undesirable plants that start to compete with the bluebells i.e. brambell. Bluebells grow better in light areas in the wild but only briefly as they are quickly outcompeted there by plants like brambell, nettle etc.

In most woodland conditions with most soil types bluebells spread only slowly and are poor colonisers - translocation of bulbs is often the only way to get bluebells established in these situations without vast amounts of work and micro-management of the site which is usually just not a realistic option.

I hope you notice how much we have in common Exeldama 'cos I'm always right too!!

[Exeldama]

Stephen...im in common with no one..the world is not big enough. !

Spanish bluebells are a pain..however the program i refered to was im sure refering to English bluebells specifically which is why i was so confused by the response.. My dad owns some land which comprises woodland surrounding a large araeble field.whih one presumes once had forest cover...well the bluebells try and spread every year, that is until the tractor ploughs them into the ground..that suggests that they are quite good colinizers as the seed bed cant be that robust getting turned over every year for decades.

I would just suggest you grow your own hazel seedlings... cut out the middle man/woman.... alternatively sod the law and see what prison food is really like..... .. apparently you can do woodworking courses which might be useful.

[Twybill]

Up here in the Pennine valleys our bluebells often inhabit damp grassland on woodland edges and persist for a long number of years.

Bluebells do not like shade, they are what is known as shade-evaders ie they flower before the woodland trees are fully out. That is why the excessive self seeding of Sycamore within woods is bad for bluebells as these trees come into leaf far too early and shade out and suppress the bluebell.

If a suitable acidic wood is thinned the bluebells flower and seed that much better. They then spread remarkably quickly over large areas. Creeping soft grass, Holcus mollis, is associated with bluebells. If you have this grass I think conditions would be just right. Also if you transplant bulbs, try and keep a little soil with them, as they have a specific soil born fungus which associates with them and provides nutrition.

Bluebell bulbs start off as a small black seed on the surface and as they grow into a larger bulb they grow downwards into the soil until reaching their ideal depth, (that is why some bulbs are like a long tube with bulbils on each end). This is also the depth where this fungus prefers to be. Or maybe Yorkshire bluebells are different!