Small Woodland Owners' Group

A Cunning Plan

Topics that don't easily fit anywhere else!

Re: A Cunning Plan

Postby oldclaypaws » Sat Sep 07, 2013 7:21 pm

This one is for anyone who queries whether (goat) willow is a good fuel. Wheres the crumpet fork?
goat willow.jpg
oldclaypaws
 
Posts: 1132
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:13 pm

Re: A Cunning Plan

Postby oldclaypaws » Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:10 am

Just an update;

Had a very good meeting in the wood this morning with the Forestry Commission, who fully approve of my plan and have provided some useful additional information. Key points-

If I wanted, I could clear fell all the 150 big oaks with their blessing provided I replanted. I indicated I only want to fell the minimum to get enough light in to get the coppice growing well, and to restock with other varied noble hardwoods to have a new generation of more diverse trees coming through for the future, my motive being the long term biodiversity and ecology of the wood, not profit. They liked that bit.

They agreed its sensible to leave all the oaks on the edges for wind protection, otherwise theres a risk of wind fall on the remaining trees. They reckon my oldest oaks are 400 years old. (They are not on the chop list).

They thought it might be a good wood as an example of best practice and education, if its all done as well as I aim to.

The most likely reason my Hazel has struggled in the centre of the wood is lack of light and strangling by brambles. They didnt like the brambles and suggested leaving a few patches but getting rid of the rest, using the hand tool methods I've already evolved (machete slash, pull roots with Canterbury fork, burn).

They recommended a scheme (wood forester project) to ensure best eventual price and use of the timber.

They didn't think approaching a contractor to do the felling would return good value. Many of the trees have a premium veneer value and there are some good long straight butts.

They like my deadwood, both on the ground and standing.

They also think I'll end up with Doormice.

They approved of my choice of new trees and shrubs, namely Lime, Oak, Wild Service, Hornbeam, Cherry, Wild Cherry, Walnut, Rowan, Dogwood, Viburnum, Guelder Rose, Birch & others.

£1000 Grants for woodland plans are about to have the minimum 3 hectare threshold reduced to include smaller woods.

If a felling license is granted for five years against a management plan and it takes longer, they'll just roll it over for as long as it takes, so its best to do it properly rather than hurriedly.

He liked to wood very much, thought the way its level and you can just drive in is unusual in our region, and guessed it had cost quite a bit more than I paid, so it seems I didn't pay over the odds and have a fairly special one. -Always nice to have someone else knowledgeable confirm what you thought yourself.

Forestry Commission Officers are provided with rather sad small 2 wheel drive cars, not nice big sensible 4 x 4's, much to their disgruntlement. I predicted in a couple of years he'll be downgraded to a buspass and mountain bike.
oldclaypaws
 
Posts: 1132
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:13 pm

Re: premium trees, and lime

Postby SimonFisher » Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:36 am

oldclaypaws wrote:They didn't think approaching a contractor to do the felling would return good value. Many of the trees have a premium veneer value and there are some good long straight butts.

So how do you go about an alternative - is it a case of finding someone who actually wants specific trees, and selling it to them standing?

oldclaypaws wrote:They approved of my choice of new trees and shrubs, namely Lime, Oak, Wild Service, Hornbeam, Cherry, Wild Cherry, Walnut, Rowan, Dogwood, Viburnum, Guelder Rose, Birch & others.

Are you thinking of the Lime as a potentially useful timber or just for diversity? I felled a couple of lime trees January 2012, got the wood split and seasoned fairly within a year but found it an unattractive firewood compared to our usual ash, beech and oak. It's comparitively light in weight after seasoning and although it burns well enough, compared to pieces of the same size of what I usuall burn, the lime burns very quickly. Lime's not one I'll be in a hurry to fill my log store with again.
SimonFisher
 
Posts: 614
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:00 pm

Re: A Cunning Plan

Postby oldclaypaws » Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:29 pm

So how do you go about an alternative - is it a case of finding someone who actually wants specific trees, and selling it to them standing?


I'm told this information will come to light via the wood forester project, its prime aim is to put woodland owners in touch with optimum local markets for timber.

Are you thinking of the Lime as a potentially useful timber or just for diversity?


Apparently "the sweet smelling flowers attract large numbers of insects - so much so that the trees are said to humm or buzz in the summer. Small leaved lime was widely coppiced and used as fuel, hop-poles, bean-sticks, cups, ladles, bowls and morris dancing sticks! This is because it has a tight grain and does not splinter when hit hard. The wood was also a favourite of wood-carvers. This led to large areas of lime woods managed as coppice to give a never ending supply of the wood. The fibrous layer of under-bark called ‘bast’ was twisted into ropes or used to make sandals. The leaves were also useful as fodder for livestock and the very young leaves were a tasty sandwich filling! The blossom can also be used to make tea which was used during the war as a mild sedative. Even the small round fruits are just about edible and have a cocoa-like taste."

-Sounds good to me !
oldclaypaws
 
Posts: 1132
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:13 pm

Re: A Cunning Plan

Postby oldclaypaws » Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:35 pm

Sorry, its the WARD foresters project. Not sure if its just in our region (SouthWest), but it sounds very good. Hopefully it'll roll out Nationally. See link;

http://www.forestryjournal.co.uk/newsitefiles/2013/0313Web/WardForestry.pdf
oldclaypaws
 
Posts: 1132
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:13 pm

Re: A Cunning Plan

Postby Dexter's Shed » Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:19 pm

oldclaypaws wrote:

They also think I'll end up with Doormice.



how can they know that, have you seen evidence, fouling etc
Dexter's Shed
 
Posts: 748
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: essex and kent

Re: A Cunning Plan

Postby oldclaypaws » Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:58 pm

They seem to think if the right habitat evolves, the appropriate species will colonise it. Its a bit like digging a pond, give it a week and you'll have frogs. There may be occasional doormice in the hedges (?), so if they find a nice thick Hazel coppice, they'll move in. I believe the only way you know you've got them is to set box-traps to catch them, for all I know they are already there !!
oldclaypaws
 
Posts: 1132
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:13 pm

Re: A Cunning Plan

Postby Stephen1 » Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:55 pm

Well as you may remember from previous sparring my interest is very much in the develpment of Old-Growth Woodland - for which your wood would have been a wonderful starting point! However the plans you describe will, as you know, favour a great number of other species, and will in the short and medium term have greater benefits than the direction I would have chosen for management. Don't for a minute think I don't know I'm in a minority!
A great choice of species you've chosen for replanting, if you're interested in any comments of mine, I would suggest adding a few large leaved lime to the mix and having the percentage of small leaved lime higher than the other species. No doubt you will be aware it would have been the dominant species of your wood before humans began favouring the much more useful oak. Also as a shade tolerant tree (large leaved is even more shade tolerant than small leaved) it grows well in thinned woodland sites - not just plantings after clear-fells or in the open. Lime is also less favoured by squirrels (though not immune) and resistant to many phytphthoras and is predicted to resist novel future forms (due to the nature of its resistance). Unless you thin very heavily oak will do poorly if in any shade at all - q. petrea is slightly more shade tolerant than Q. robur - (oak failing to regenerate in woodland since the end of the 19th century is probably due to an imported american mildew).
Obvously by planting so many species you're thinking about buffering the wood longterm against future disease problems. It might be worth a punt on some of the latest elm bred for resistance to Dutch Elm disease - morfeo seems a very promising variety, available from Ashridge nurseries. Very dear, but suckers from roots some distance from main trunk and propagates very easily from stem cuttings - so easy to increase numbers after initial purchase of a couple.
Another perhaps more controversial one would be to include some patches of Manchurian Ash (Fraxinus mandshurica) very similar in appearance to our native ash but resistant to chalara and emerald borer. Creates very similar condidtions ecologically below its canopy to our native ash, and has similar bark pH for lichens etc. Most native species that use our native ash can use this tree in an almost identical way. Difficult to get hold of but seed is available.

Out of interest my experience of burning lime is that it seemed pretty good to me - it took a long time to season - perhaps it's tight fine grain makes the rate at which it dries slower?
Last edited by Stephen1 on Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Stephen1
 
Posts: 212
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 8:12 am

Re: A Cunning Plan

Postby oldclaypaws » Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:30 pm

I should add the proposed new planting is in addition to what I already have;

Elm, Hazel, Ash, Holly, Crabapple, Field Maple, Sycamorre, Blackthorn, Elder, Sweet Chestnut, Goat Willow, Dog Rose, Red Currant, Wild Privet, Birch & 1 Silver Fir (100 ft high!). Might also plop in a few fruit trees; Wild Pear, Plum, Apple.

I appreciate the virtues of the 'old growth' habitat Stephen and I found your last post very informative particularly about the new Ash and Limes. We should remember its named a 'Copse'- the species that are there evolved as a result of regular coppicing. Its now an overstood overshaded coppice, and regenerating it will bring in a sustainable mix of valued shrubs, flowers, insects, birds and bats. I've a fine spring show of bluebells, primroses, violets, yellow archangel, orchids and anenomes- they don't do so well in dense shade and I'm not as fond of ground Ivy as a carpet of flowers buzzing with butterflies and bees. If the oaks and Hazels were left as they are, you'd end up with very little Hazel, lots of sycamore and bramble, and probably other invasives such as Rhodos and Laurel.

Methinks a bit of well-informed and well intentioned human intervention is better than leaving it to neglect and chance. What I have is not the Amazon, its an oak plantation of largely uniform aged trees, planted on top of a neglected semi ancient coppice. Its been mucked about with in the past, with rubbish dumping, botched coppicing, gypsies, monoculture over dense planting, and I'm determined to restore it to something with more diversity, life, colour, interest, educational value and ecological merit. Amen !
oldclaypaws
 
Posts: 1132
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:13 pm

Re: A Cunning Plan

Postby oldclaypaws » Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:03 am

Interesting snippet on the Beeb today which talks about the threats to woodland and how they might best survive.

A Woodland Trust chap comments that

"For future healthy forests we need forests to have a wider range of native species growing there, so that all our eggs aren't in one basket," says Mr Brady.

"So that if a particular pest and disease or issue comes along it won't destroy the whole forest. It might take out some of the components but there'll be enough different species of trees in there for the forest to survive."

Maintaining diversity in the age of trees is also important, he says, as is maintaining connections between woods to give wildlife the space to thrive.


This seems a perfect fit for my own plans, that is to say if you have a wood dominated by one species and similar age trees, however imposing they are, its best to gradually thin them and replant with a more diverse mix of other appropriate species.

Anyone interested in the full article;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24239440
oldclaypaws
 
Posts: 1132
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:13 pm

PreviousNext

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests