Hazel and TPO ?

[smojo]

Thanks again Paws. Good sensible comments.

[The Barrowers]

I am led to believe Council have to keep TPO's up to date and must have justification for them?

[smojo]

Just had a phone conversation with the trees and hedgerows officer at the local council. Very helpful and informative. Basically all wood plants that emerge with leaves are under the TPO so that includes tiny saplings. The deed of covenant clause that Paws mentioned is relevant if and when you receive a felling license from the FC because that will require a management plan approving by them. If you have that then it negates or overrides the councils TPOs. He told me that in the case of woodland management outside of FC involvement or felling licenses, they are prepared to consider your own management plan over a 5 or ten year period where you can generalise to some extent - you don't have to list or ID every single tree. You can state for example you have a stand of approx. 500 30 year old sycamore and that you want to thin them by 10% or that you have a compartment of mixed species and you want to reduce them by 10 stems of beech, 10 stems of oak etc. etc. As for hazel, they encourage re-coppicing and as they have been coppiced in the past, won't refuse permission - but will still need a mention in the plan - eg to re-coppice the hazel on a 5 or 7 year cycle or whatever.

So that's pretty much clarified things for me. It seems there is some sensible leeway but it needs a plan and permission granting first. The council's official guide states the work has to be carried out within 2 years but he told me they would consider a 5 and 10 year plan leaving more flexibility as to which actual trees to fell and more time to complete.

[Zathras]

Good to know that your council interaction was positive and informative.
Also confirms my thoughts that a management plan is pretty much essential for any woods with a TPO.

We've got lots to deal with in regards to fallen trees and brush that will keep us busy this year while we get to know the woodland better, so not in a rush to produce one (although we have started) - but by next spring we'll start feeling the TPO restrictions and need to get an official plan agreed too.

[smojo]

Zathras - yes in full agreement with you. I think a management plan is essential and even if there is no TPO it's a good idea anyway as it gives you a focus and something to aim for and keep on track with. So that's my next job.

With a TPO you are allowed to remove dead trees without permission although the guy said they like to encourage people to leave some for wildlife - no brainer isn't it? Also any trees that are considered dangerous, especially if bordering a public road. I think pruning of dead branches is OK too. So plenty to keep you busy I'm sure.

[oldclaypaws]

It should be remembered that the Forestry Commission allow as standard practice coppicing, thinning, creation of rides and glades and felling of 5 cubic metres per quarter (3 Months) without any license required. With young Sycamores 20m cu per year would be possibly 80 trees (?).

As such your plan is likely to fall well within FC standard allowances and they might say 'you don't need any special consent from us, carry on'. Just make sure you don't exceed the allowances, and have some acknowledgement from them that your plan is well within the bounds of normal acceptable activity, that way you can just about do what you want within reason and not have the council on your back. I rather fancy the FC will say 'why are you asking us, you're not doing anything we'd be fussed about'.

It very conscientious of you to be so careful, but I really can't see you'll do anything that'll require forms filled out in triplicate, most of us are able to manage our own little patches without ever seeing an FC officer or official and are not doing anything they'd raise an eyebrow about, unless suddenly harvesting significant volumes to replant, such as restoring conifer to deciduous.

[boxerman]

Although I'm a long way from the place smojo is right now I'm trying to pick up and understand some basics and there's a couple of things here that I'm unsure of.

Paws - you say above:

It should be remembered that the Forestry Commission allow as standard practice coppicing, thinning, creation of rides and glades and felling of 5 cubic metres per quarter

I'm sure I'm reading that wrongly but to me it reads that you can fell enough trees to create a glade or a ride - is that correct?

I think I've learned enough to understand that a Management plan is pretty much essential both for the owners peace of mind in ensuring that he's operating within the law and also to give a sense of purpose to what's being achieved but what I don't understand is whether or not it's a requirement for all of the work to actually be completed by the expiry time of the plan. Is it actually a requirement or is it just a guideline for what you'd ideally like to achieve within that period??

[oldclaypaws]

I'm sure I'm reading that wrongly but to me it reads that you can fell enough trees to create a glade or a ride - is that correct?

The creation of a number of glades and rides is generally seen as a positive as it lets in light, encouraging biodiversity, light loving flora at the edges and a variety of habitats within the wood. Provided you stayed within the guidelines of 5 cu metre of felled timber in a quarter, you could progressively create rides or glades without applying for a licence, although it might still be advisable to just run it past an FC officer for their thoughts. If you wanted to do it all at once and exceed the 5 cu m / quarter in one go, you'd probably still have no problem getting permission if your plans seemed well thought through and appropriate. Rides, access and open areas are necessary for timber extraction and processing, so are a normal and positive feature of many woods.

what I don't understand is whether or not it's a requirement for all of the work to actually be completed by the expiry time of the plan

When I discussed thinning my oaks with the FC, I said one option was to do it at a very slow pace, maybe just a few a year to minimise disturbance, and as such it might take many years. The FC officer said they usually grant a felling license to cover an agreed time frame, ( 10 years as I recall ?), but if due to variable factors such as health/weather/finances/available time, etc, it takes longer, there would be no problem granting an automatic extension if the original felling proposals are adhered to. Main thing they are concerned with is that you've given thought to replacing the felled trees, either through restocking or natural regeneration. Felling large areas and replanting is a normal forestry activity, the FC and large Estates see woods more as a harvest or long term timber crop rather than most SWOG members view of them as a semi-permanent amenity.

Its all on here;

http://www.forestry.gov.uk/england-fellinglicences

[Rankinswood]

It is possible to combine creating a new woodland ride with thinning / felling using the Forestry Commission 5 Cu Metre felling allowance. Late summer is probably the best time to undertake this kind of work and and keep in mind that if this is done at the end of September / beginning of October then the felling allowance can effectively be doubled to 10 Cu M.

Rankinswood

[SimonFisher]

... thinning / felling using the Forestry Commission 5 Cu Metre felling allowance. Late summer is probably the best time to undertake this kind of work and and keep in mind that if this is done at the end of September / beginning of October then the felling allowance can effectively be doubled to 10 Cu M.

If you ring-bark in advance, you could achieve the full 20 cubic metres - see http://www.avelandtrees.co.uk/index.php/2010/12/ring-barking-and-felling-licences/.