First Aid

[The Barrowers]

Hello

Have a look on the internet for info about CELOX, a stop bleeding product. Useful for big wounds such as chainsaw accidents?

Have you heard about putting a nappy in your hard hat as a first aid bandage?

Hope I never need either a nappy again or CELOX.

[tracy]

Not heard of the CELOX, but have heard about the nappy idea! Certainly the bandage that comes with the trousers would be no good - and we each have an army field dressing. Only about £3.

[rogerspianocat]

I also heard that the nappy idea was a particularly bad one, especially for arterial bleeds. All it would do would be to stop your blood dirtying the woodland floor, not stop the bleeding, as nappies are made to absorb vast quantities of liquid. If you're worried about bloodstains on your (ripped) chainsaw trousers, use a nappy, otherwise celox is better, though expensive and it doesn't have a long shelf life.

[David H]

Yep Celox seems to be a lot better than quick clot, it don't burn around the wound and it seems to have better clotting properties. The FFD that you have tracy it what a lot of Police carry on them these days, if it's the one in the green packet, not the old sand colored one ?

I remember when I first started in Forestry they sent us on a first aid course and packed us off with a little belt first aid kit ! At first I thought what is this gonna stop, then after a few years if things are done right you won't see big gushing accidents if people take risks with chainsaws, tractors, trees and whinches then accidents will happen.

More often than not I saw people cutting themselfs when sharpening their chainsaw or burning their arm on the exhaust, or silly things like using a reap hook and not having a pole in the other hand to stop the hook if you followed through with your swing.

I also remember a lad who was watching me sned a tree and he thought he could do the same the fact was he had only just recently used a chainsaw. He tried to go too fast and hit his leg, he had chainsaw trousers on which saved the day. The time he spent then getting all of the weave out of the chainsaw made him think how lucky he was and that with time and practice comes confidence and skill. Accident useally happen when someone does something wrong or lack of maintenance to equipment, apart from the odd freak accident !

Things I would concider if I had a wood inline with First Aid, not in priority

1. Do I have phone signal in my location - Yes is it good signal all the time ? No what other methods do I have to call for help.

2. Can the Emergency services get to me/find me Yes ? No if the Air Ambulance was called could they land near by ? what do I have that I could signal my postion ground marker or helograph.

3. Where is the nearest Hospital

4. Do I have the knowledge and Kit to deal with a sever bleed, burn or crushing injury ?

5. Do I have the Knowledge or kit to carryout some of the jobs around the woods ?

6. Who knows I am here and how long I will be before somebody will miss me :-)

People will have others I'm sure,

It's nice to get away from society but will still need to be able to contact them quick if we need help !

Dave

[RichardKing]

Does this clotting agent work on blood pumping out under arterial pressure ?

I think people need to more clearly define the situations.

Severing an artery wont give you time enough to look for any clotting agent, you need to apply immediate & continuous pressure. Know your pressure points!

chainsaws dont so much "cut" flesh as rip out a channel, a gauze pad stuffed into it & pressure are probably the best immediate actions. Any clean fabric would do.

A minorcut ? Well keep it clean to stop it getting infected. Your clotting agent might work.

.

Its some years since I did a first aid course. The major point was that to save a life in most cases all you need are your bare hands. The major objective of first aid in the UK is to keep somebody alive untill the ambulance arrives.

[David H]

Richard,

Your exactly right a first aiders job is to keep that person alive, with a basic first aid kit this can greatly increase the persons chances, the FFD/Isreal bandage as additives that also encourage clotting, will fit in your trouser pocket. First aid is first aid we aint no paramedics just trying to better ya chances should it go wrong !

A friend of mine had to deal with his workmate who while up the tree was using the saw above his head it came down and cut into his chest, hell of a mess, the quick actions of all concernd kept him alive, dressings and pressure, he lost a lot of blood but made it, not far from the Hospital helped. Had they had this stuff back then it would have further increased his chances and possibly loss of blood all for £17:00 approx a packet

Copied from the Celox site

Celox™ can stop even potentially lethal bleeding fast. It is easy to use (just pour, pack and apply pressure), very safe (tested to class 3 CE Mark standards) and extremely effective. Celox™ saves lives.

When mixed with blood, Celox™ forms a robust gel like clot in 30 seconds. It works independently of the bodies normal clotting processes. Celox’s™ clotting ability has been proven to work in the cold (hypothermia) or in the presence of common anti-coagulants such as warfarin. It generates no heat and will not burn the casualty or care giver.

In clinical tests by the US marines, Celox™ was the only product to give 100% survival. It gave a strong stable MAP (mean arterial blood pressure) and was also the only product to give robust clotting with no rebleeding**.

Celox’s™ safety has been tested to the intense class 3 CE mark standards. Celox™ is made with chitosan. Chitosan is broken down by lysozyme, a human enzyme, to leave glucosamine, a sugar which is normally found in the body***.

Celox™ does NOT use non degrading procoagulant minerals or nano particles such as smectitie or kaolin, which will remain in the body indefinately unless completely removed.

Celox™ is suitable for

•A wide range of bleeding wounds

•Arterial and venous bleeding

•Surface and deep wounds

•Lacerations, grazes and minor cuts

Celox™ has been shown to:

•Save lives

•Reliably stop arterial bleeding**

•Significantly reduce blood loss**

•Clot blood containing anticoagulants like Coumadin (warfarin)*

•Clot hypothermic (cold) blood*

•Generate no heat.

All good stuff, to the point where the MOD have now decided to use this, more in favour than quick clot.

[JamesMio]

I wrote a blot post on this a few months back - it's here if anyone's interested:

http://wmclarkandson.wordpress.com/2009/08/14/how-to-use-celox-granules/

There is a video on YouTube of Celox being tested on a pig that was sedated and on it's way to slaughter (it's not particularly pleasant viewing, hence why I've not posted a link to it).

The purpose of the video was to prove that Celox works even on a cut to the femoral artery (our's is very similar to a pigs, apparently?!) and it did actually stop the bleeding very quickly.

It has a shelf life of approximately 3 years and, as someone else mentioned, costs around £17 a sachet - just over a fiver a year for something that might just save your skin isn't too bad really.

[jillybean]

I think im gonna be sick........