Buying Woodland - Your Opinions

[Franakapan]

Hi,

My family is currently in the process of looking for and buying a woodland and, while we have some knowledge of what is involved in terms of management (practical skills, application thereof, and some courses), we've never been through this process before. I would therefore like to see what people think of our situation (outlined below) and considerations and thought processes involved with buying woodland in general.

Our situation is that we're looking for woodland that could provide for our firewood needs in an effort to be more sustainable, and provide additional supplemental mid-long term income and capital growth. We're not planning to build on the site.

As of yesterday, we located just over 5 acres of mainly oak and birch woodland with some sycamore - most of which are probably less than 30-40 years of age - that is being sold for £35,000. Having visited the wood briefly tonight, natural regeneration seems to be the predominant 'management' technique. There doesn't appear to have been any proactive management in some time as there are no stumps and no evidence of coppicing, thinning, brashing, etc. There are some trees with potential in terms of timber production although they are very much in the majority. The site has well maintained shared access, rides and general access in the wood need improving, and there is no running water on site.

What are your opinions on the woodland in relation to our objectives? What would you do in our situation? What measures would you take if buying this woodland?

I look forward to reading your responses and my thanks in advance to those of you who spend time offering your opinions.

[tracy]

Hi Franakapan

Great questions! Sounds exciting. First thing to think about if you are looking at a low carbon fuel - how far is the woodland from your house. Driving long distances to get the fuel would negate your savings.....

Good access is important and oak is a great timber for building and firewood - as is birch!

best wishes

Tracy

[Franakapan]

Very good point. We currently live about 15 miles from the woods although we are renting at the moment. Ideally, we'd be no more than 5 miles or so from any land we own in the future.

Access up to the woodland is pretty decent although would require a 4x4, especially in Winter. Access on site would need a 4x4 all year round, and there are no rides within the woodland itself so extraction could be an issue in some parts.

Most of the oak isn't ready or of a good enough quality to be harvested for planking or beams at the moment although there will be potential :) And yes, the birch is a good tree to have regarding our objectives. We'd be looking to implement a coppice with standards approach to management I think.

[John H]

No one here has written to say that they regretted buying their woodland but don't buy it if you think you will make money out of it. It may go up in value but £7k per acre sounds quite high unless it is in the South East, but I may be out of touch.

Also don't buy it if you just want a free supply of logs.

Do buy it if you are looking for a silviculture project, like working with chainsaws,pruning the young trees as they grow, working outside in all weathers,watching the seasons change......the list goes on. One of the best things for me has been that as the year passes I don't now see it as I am another year older and more decreped but that my trees are another 2or 3 foot taller and growing well.

[Franakapan]

Once again, some great points raised.

The reason why I was looking at it from a commercial point of view is threefold. Firstly, my parents, who regard whatever land they purchase as part of mine and my sisters inheritance, are worried about reducing the value of the land overly much. Secondly, my father in particular is regarding the acquisition of woodland as an insurance policy against rising fuel/electricity costs. Thirdly, my parents wish to explore all potential avenues regarding woodland ownership and management, hence my points about commercial quality timber etc. The three pillars of sustainability also demonstrate that, in order for a woodland to be managed effectively and sustainably, the owner/manager must be able to support any costs from woodland products or similar, at least in part.

However, my family's motives for buying woodland are far from being purely commercial. We all love nature, wildlife and the outdoors (working with as well as enjoying from a recreational point of view) and, as I regard it, this would be the primary motive for buying woodland anyway.

[John H]

I would say go for it.

In the long term land prices are very unlikely to fall , they might not rise as fast as they have in the past. Money in woodland is safe and can't be easily frittered away.

[Catweazle]

5 Acres should be able to provide all your heating ( and cooking ) energy needs. £35k sounds like a lot, but think of it as an advance on energy bills for your parents, you, your kids and grandkids etc and it doesn't sound so bad. Couple that with the fact that you can heat yourself for years then likely sell it for at least what you paid then it starts to sound like a good investment.

You'll also avoid inheritance tax if you sell an occasional log to make it commercial woodland.

One thing that might put me off is the amount of timber on the land, if it's young or small then you might be better off looking for somewhere more mature, it's possible to find neglected land with a LOT of timber on it and get a grant to cut it down - which is a double win !

[DuncanB]

Agree with most of the above points - but i think that the real value of owning such a wood is the enjoyment of owning and managing a small part of the country that will become very precious to you and your family - my experience is that it's brought my family even closer together, has maintained my sanity (others may argue on this point!), has got me fitter, and has brought me, my family and numerous friends great fun over the time that I've owned it.

True, there are other benefits; I don't think that the value of the land will decrease, there are inheritance benefits and you can produce a lot of sustainable firewood, but don't expect to make a significant income from your investment. If you wanted to make money by working in the wood, you're probably going to make more cash per hour by getting a paper round!

The only advice I might offer is that you'll get out of it what you put into it; you need to spend time there and work (hard) when you're there (but don't forget to spend time enjoying it peacefully as well - invest in a hammock) - so it's better to get a wood that's as close to you as possible to allow frequent trips. After a day in the wood you'll go home filthy and exhausted with blisters, bunions and bites, you'll obsessively pore over the chainsaws on ebay and read the most obscure books on dry-stone walling. Is it worth it? You bet your life it is!

[RichardKing]

"natural regeneration"? a lot of questioms there.

What is it that was being coppiced ?

Oak is unlikely to regenerate by self seeding under woodland conditions, but can be coppiced.

Birch & Sycamore produce enormous ammounts of seed & as both are distateful to deer will easily self seed. In my experience Sycamore seems to regenerate well from coppicing, Birch can be a bit mixed.

.

Price seems high, but I am probably out of touch. Eight years ago I paid £2,000 an acre, can it now be worth 7 ? Will it continue to increase? But as the say,"the value of anything is what people are prepared tp pay" and there does not seem to be a shortage of buyers (are they bankers ?)

[Franakapan]

A bit of an update. My parents put an offer in for the wood and it's been accepted so I'm looking forward to spending some time walking the land to get a feel for the place and it's seasonal changes etc. We're going to get hold of someone from the Forestry Commission once the purchase is finalised to see what their take is and what grants may be available.

We've already started debating a couple of options although we won't be making any firm decisions for a while.

Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply, your thoughts have been very insightful!